I am well down life’s path, having two “primary” relationships, with never the “third” or surrogate accompanying relationship. Your coffee shop – back in my work-world those existed on a regular basis. Generally, however they were most often visited with colleagues. I would observe others, singular others, hanging out as regulars. They were there to be around other people. Between relationships I first learned of that attraction. Just people. I just needed other people. Not even to talk or interact with, but to be occupying the same space. If only for a time.
Your quest for a third place relationship, or just to explore the concept philosophically provokes many thoughts. Self, spouse are my primary relationships. Siblings, children, and grandchildren are an ebb and flow relationship. They get very busy with their own lives and relationships.
So many of my peers, in succeeding relationships, battle with the “relationships” that preceded their now primary relationship. When “mom” is not “my” mom. When “dad” is not “my” dad. An emotional caldron. Perhaps morass is more descriptive.
Just another human, to share their story/stories they yearn to share. Separate and apart from what is shared in the primary relationship. It seems to me, we need people, social creatures that we are.
As life evolves, I have been exposed to couples where they were “everything” to each other. Inevitable one passes – death or divorce. The loneliness which ensues I have observed destroys the survivor. Perhaps a third, or surrogate, relationship evolves into a survival relationship. We are all guaranteed to pass. Rarely do we get to pass “together”.
Keith, this was so beautiful that I had to sit with it until I could give it a proper response. Thank you so much for sharing all this. “Just people. I just needed other people. Not even to talk or interact with, but to be occupying the same space. If only for a time.” -Yes. I’ll be thinking about this, and the last few sentences you wrote on this comment, for a long time.
Great, thought-provoking piece. My main third place and third relationships are in my recovery group. It is a no judgment setting where people share their innermost thoughts, dark memories and worries, where they can ask for help without shame. Not every third place or relationship will be like that but such groups (tellingly called a fellowship) are extraordinary in today’s world, in which the emphasis on self-sufficiency, status and one’s affiliations or identities actually isolate us and deprive us of the incredible power of community.
Love this. I have spent a lot of time thinking and thinking about writing about third places, if that makes sense. I love the word “slippery” to describe these third place relationships. I have one with my hairstylist. She is a few years younger than me but has done my hair for 25 years or sonething. We are not friends but sometimes we share very intimate things and help each other along. I value it and I relate to the idea of showing up in a singular way sometimes- she seems me as a good mom and we often talk about our sons. Anyway- thanks for this. I’m thinking about going to my local coffee shop more often and trying to make a third place of it. I need more of these interactions. 😀
Yes! Ack Ss just erased my comment to you Melinda, but I wanted to say thank you for getting it about “slippery!” I was trying to find a word that wrested intimacy out of a depth framework, because sometimes I’ll have a profound moment with a near stranger. Someone I see regularly. But aren’t super tight. I’m thinking of a woman who works a drive thru at a local sandwich shop, and every time I see her my whole body just relaxes. She’s so kind, so funny and cool, and even though we didn’t exactly mean to create the intimacy it just sort of slipped into our interactions. And I’m so thankful for it.
According to my research, what might be called "third place sexual relationships" were probably the norm until the advent of agriculture and its attendant encumbrances (property concerns, rampant STDs, organized religions, hierarchical power dynamics, etc.). Our current relationship structures are as sedentary as our bodies -- leading to some similar kinds of suffering.
Totally. It’s a big reason I’m so fascinated by surrogate partners at the moment, because they quietly help heal some of that suffering, whether it’s bad relationships, trauma, or simple loneliness. They disrupt the private property thinking we associate with traditional romantic relationships, and what sex can even BE for — a vehicle for healing, for returning you back to your body. Thanks for picking up the thread here on the sexual nature of what these third place relationships can be Chris. (And, how they once were.)
I gleefully read your descriptions of the two coffee shops out loud to my husband. We had our first meetings with our wedding officiant there. (An Art History professor not priest, scandalizing our religious relatives). I've never been inside the second.
I love love loved this. I think we’re so limited by language to define the complexity of human relationships. This took a weight off my chest when thinking of some current, unplaceable relationships I have. Thank you xx
I read a book a while back called 'Consequential Strangers' which crosses over a lot with what you're saying, and it's stuck with me since - the idea that much of the valuable connection in life comes from our weak ties as much as our strong ones, and I've begins to nurture these much more since - enjoyably so 😊
Could third place relationships even be the ones we make up on our own? For me I love people watching not in a creepy stalker way but in a way to take in the beauty of people living their life and experiencing it just as I am but in their own way. Thinking about who they are, what they do, what their favourite hobby may be, where they are going and how they ended up here is comforting to me. It’s a relationship that isn’t formed with words or communication it’s just the art of living as humans together but experiencing it with our own unique perspective.
*Yes!* I think so. Because I love people watching too. Some of the best coffee shops I’ve ever been to have bars that face the street outside, so you can sit there enjoying your beverage, watching the world go by.
This is such a great essay. Last year I started going to a coffee shop a few blocks away most mornings to get out and walk more and to spend more time reading, and eventually started to make third place relationships with the workers there, sharing stories and gossip. It's made the ritual of going all the more meaningful. Reading this put so many of the feelings into perspective.
We have a fancy gym chain in London called Third Space, I'm not sure how big they are elsewhere if at all, but I did wonder before - chewing over the name when my ex joined Third Space - if the name is literally referring to a third space after home and work.
I think all three are blending now, in London we can't afford homes and work is increasingly remote, so the hospitality industry is providing cafes as a sort of sober pub.
Totally Jack. The locus of gathering is shifting, with the advent of remote work. (Funny how that gym chain may have picked up on that.) I’ve been a remote worker for 13 years now, and while I’ve always valued that flexibility, I notice in myself how different I feel when I’ve been working at home all day vs. working out in the world. Even if I verbally interact with no one, the energy of being around other humans is comforting. (And PS in Austin no one can afford homes either!)
Beautiful and thought provoking, as always. "I took a walk the other day and leaned against a tree, telling it everything. It listened, I cried, and when I felt I’d exhausted its patience I laid down on a rock and told it too. Water ran below us." This is my third place relation and space; me, alone on a bench in park under a tree or low on the bank by the river, being held or maybe learning to hold. I'm a bit of an outsider with this belief that I'm never alone and always needed; my instinct is to go within rather than reach out. I love the reminder of community and the idea of third place relationships to be seen and experience intimacy on lighter levels. I NEED THAT. Thank you. And your friend Danny is not wrong; family brings up all of our shit-- an experience I try to frame as (an opportunity) showing me where I need to tend to. reading that makes me sounds far more evolved than I am. Hence me hiding down by the river wanting to be alone, lolzzzz
I honestly think that nature, community and art will heal this fucked up time we’re in Ash. Just those specific energy currents running through us, even if we’re “alone” (like on a bench in a park under a tree). And, funny — I was just commenting to someone else the joy of sitting at the bar, and I remember when you and I sat at the bar. 😊 (Was that All Fours night??)
This was an excellent read! I’m a bartender and artist and I luckily have opportunity to not rely on the bar fully for income but I absolutely can not leave it purely because of these relationships! I love seeing people come in from out of town, my regulars and their life updates, one man is teaching me Russian every Tuesday, one couple asked me to paint their wedding photo they wish they had gotten but didn’t, it’s beautiful. I love being apart of the community this way where people always know where to find me and talk and I just get to see them for a few hours once a month or a week you know? It’s so important. Thanks for putting it into words
I love your people at the bar!! Emma— a recent-ish revelation of mine is the sheer JOY of sitting at the bar, anywhere. I realized that it’s organically communal, and I always end up having a cool conversation with either the bartender or my fellow bar folk. It’s funny because I don’t even drink, most of the time I just bring a book and order food, but it’s made me appreciate the ethic of pub life. This idea that we’re all here together, and togetherness is the point.
Took a job that forced me to be in the office two years ago. At the time I dread it but I couldn’t imagine not going in now. The people in the office are great and it gives me a nice change of pace. This comment was not brought to you by big tech
the research, concept and especially the storytelling of this article is absolutely immaculate!! the way you move between explanation, interview and narrative is so seamless, like butter in a pan, making this so delightful to read.
it’s a really thought-provoking idea you bring up, on third space relationships. while i do have my own established third spaces (my local coffee shop), there aren’t really any relationships attached to it. part of me is okay with that because i mostly use the place to write/read/journal on my own but i recall my old third space, a video game club attached to my old university, to be a place brimming with funny interactions and great discussions, and part of me certainly misses that!
Thank you for those kind words Salvatore! Sometimes I think third place relationships can be healing even if interaction is minimal. Just the sheer fact of being in a safe physical space, with safe physical humans, is healing to the nervous system…I think.🙂
Interesting and enchanting.
I am well down life’s path, having two “primary” relationships, with never the “third” or surrogate accompanying relationship. Your coffee shop – back in my work-world those existed on a regular basis. Generally, however they were most often visited with colleagues. I would observe others, singular others, hanging out as regulars. They were there to be around other people. Between relationships I first learned of that attraction. Just people. I just needed other people. Not even to talk or interact with, but to be occupying the same space. If only for a time.
Your quest for a third place relationship, or just to explore the concept philosophically provokes many thoughts. Self, spouse are my primary relationships. Siblings, children, and grandchildren are an ebb and flow relationship. They get very busy with their own lives and relationships.
So many of my peers, in succeeding relationships, battle with the “relationships” that preceded their now primary relationship. When “mom” is not “my” mom. When “dad” is not “my” dad. An emotional caldron. Perhaps morass is more descriptive.
Just another human, to share their story/stories they yearn to share. Separate and apart from what is shared in the primary relationship. It seems to me, we need people, social creatures that we are.
As life evolves, I have been exposed to couples where they were “everything” to each other. Inevitable one passes – death or divorce. The loneliness which ensues I have observed destroys the survivor. Perhaps a third, or surrogate, relationship evolves into a survival relationship. We are all guaranteed to pass. Rarely do we get to pass “together”.
Keith, this was so beautiful that I had to sit with it until I could give it a proper response. Thank you so much for sharing all this. “Just people. I just needed other people. Not even to talk or interact with, but to be occupying the same space. If only for a time.” -Yes. I’ll be thinking about this, and the last few sentences you wrote on this comment, for a long time.
Great, thought-provoking piece. My main third place and third relationships are in my recovery group. It is a no judgment setting where people share their innermost thoughts, dark memories and worries, where they can ask for help without shame. Not every third place or relationship will be like that but such groups (tellingly called a fellowship) are extraordinary in today’s world, in which the emphasis on self-sufficiency, status and one’s affiliations or identities actually isolate us and deprive us of the incredible power of community.
YES!!! I was at fellowship last night and wondered if that was my 'third place' relationship!
Love this. I have spent a lot of time thinking and thinking about writing about third places, if that makes sense. I love the word “slippery” to describe these third place relationships. I have one with my hairstylist. She is a few years younger than me but has done my hair for 25 years or sonething. We are not friends but sometimes we share very intimate things and help each other along. I value it and I relate to the idea of showing up in a singular way sometimes- she seems me as a good mom and we often talk about our sons. Anyway- thanks for this. I’m thinking about going to my local coffee shop more often and trying to make a third place of it. I need more of these interactions. 😀
Yes! Ack Ss just erased my comment to you Melinda, but I wanted to say thank you for getting it about “slippery!” I was trying to find a word that wrested intimacy out of a depth framework, because sometimes I’ll have a profound moment with a near stranger. Someone I see regularly. But aren’t super tight. I’m thinking of a woman who works a drive thru at a local sandwich shop, and every time I see her my whole body just relaxes. She’s so kind, so funny and cool, and even though we didn’t exactly mean to create the intimacy it just sort of slipped into our interactions. And I’m so thankful for it.
Yes - that intimacy can just "slip" into place. :>)
According to my research, what might be called "third place sexual relationships" were probably the norm until the advent of agriculture and its attendant encumbrances (property concerns, rampant STDs, organized religions, hierarchical power dynamics, etc.). Our current relationship structures are as sedentary as our bodies -- leading to some similar kinds of suffering.
Totally. It’s a big reason I’m so fascinated by surrogate partners at the moment, because they quietly help heal some of that suffering, whether it’s bad relationships, trauma, or simple loneliness. They disrupt the private property thinking we associate with traditional romantic relationships, and what sex can even BE for — a vehicle for healing, for returning you back to your body. Thanks for picking up the thread here on the sexual nature of what these third place relationships can be Chris. (And, how they once were.)
I gleefully read your descriptions of the two coffee shops out loud to my husband. We had our first meetings with our wedding officiant there. (An Art History professor not priest, scandalizing our religious relatives). I've never been inside the second.
Michelle ☺️ This made me so happy, that you know. (And GJ is in fact the perfect spot to meet up with an Art History wedding officiant.)
I love love loved this. I think we’re so limited by language to define the complexity of human relationships. This took a weight off my chest when thinking of some current, unplaceable relationships I have. Thank you xx
I read a book a while back called 'Consequential Strangers' which crosses over a lot with what you're saying, and it's stuck with me since - the idea that much of the valuable connection in life comes from our weak ties as much as our strong ones, and I've begins to nurture these much more since - enjoyably so 😊
Could third place relationships even be the ones we make up on our own? For me I love people watching not in a creepy stalker way but in a way to take in the beauty of people living their life and experiencing it just as I am but in their own way. Thinking about who they are, what they do, what their favourite hobby may be, where they are going and how they ended up here is comforting to me. It’s a relationship that isn’t formed with words or communication it’s just the art of living as humans together but experiencing it with our own unique perspective.
*Yes!* I think so. Because I love people watching too. Some of the best coffee shops I’ve ever been to have bars that face the street outside, so you can sit there enjoying your beverage, watching the world go by.
Maybe even a fourth place relationship aha
This is such a great essay. Last year I started going to a coffee shop a few blocks away most mornings to get out and walk more and to spend more time reading, and eventually started to make third place relationships with the workers there, sharing stories and gossip. It's made the ritual of going all the more meaningful. Reading this put so many of the feelings into perspective.
Ritual is such a nice word for it, Nic!
We have a fancy gym chain in London called Third Space, I'm not sure how big they are elsewhere if at all, but I did wonder before - chewing over the name when my ex joined Third Space - if the name is literally referring to a third space after home and work.
I think all three are blending now, in London we can't afford homes and work is increasingly remote, so the hospitality industry is providing cafes as a sort of sober pub.
Totally Jack. The locus of gathering is shifting, with the advent of remote work. (Funny how that gym chain may have picked up on that.) I’ve been a remote worker for 13 years now, and while I’ve always valued that flexibility, I notice in myself how different I feel when I’ve been working at home all day vs. working out in the world. Even if I verbally interact with no one, the energy of being around other humans is comforting. (And PS in Austin no one can afford homes either!)
Beautiful and thought provoking, as always. "I took a walk the other day and leaned against a tree, telling it everything. It listened, I cried, and when I felt I’d exhausted its patience I laid down on a rock and told it too. Water ran below us." This is my third place relation and space; me, alone on a bench in park under a tree or low on the bank by the river, being held or maybe learning to hold. I'm a bit of an outsider with this belief that I'm never alone and always needed; my instinct is to go within rather than reach out. I love the reminder of community and the idea of third place relationships to be seen and experience intimacy on lighter levels. I NEED THAT. Thank you. And your friend Danny is not wrong; family brings up all of our shit-- an experience I try to frame as (an opportunity) showing me where I need to tend to. reading that makes me sounds far more evolved than I am. Hence me hiding down by the river wanting to be alone, lolzzzz
I honestly think that nature, community and art will heal this fucked up time we’re in Ash. Just those specific energy currents running through us, even if we’re “alone” (like on a bench in a park under a tree). And, funny — I was just commenting to someone else the joy of sitting at the bar, and I remember when you and I sat at the bar. 😊 (Was that All Fours night??)
This was an excellent read! I’m a bartender and artist and I luckily have opportunity to not rely on the bar fully for income but I absolutely can not leave it purely because of these relationships! I love seeing people come in from out of town, my regulars and their life updates, one man is teaching me Russian every Tuesday, one couple asked me to paint their wedding photo they wish they had gotten but didn’t, it’s beautiful. I love being apart of the community this way where people always know where to find me and talk and I just get to see them for a few hours once a month or a week you know? It’s so important. Thanks for putting it into words
I love your people at the bar!! Emma— a recent-ish revelation of mine is the sheer JOY of sitting at the bar, anywhere. I realized that it’s organically communal, and I always end up having a cool conversation with either the bartender or my fellow bar folk. It’s funny because I don’t even drink, most of the time I just bring a book and order food, but it’s made me appreciate the ethic of pub life. This idea that we’re all here together, and togetherness is the point.
Took a job that forced me to be in the office two years ago. At the time I dread it but I couldn’t imagine not going in now. The people in the office are great and it gives me a nice change of pace. This comment was not brought to you by big tech
I think a lot of people have had that experience! From dread to comfort.
the research, concept and especially the storytelling of this article is absolutely immaculate!! the way you move between explanation, interview and narrative is so seamless, like butter in a pan, making this so delightful to read.
it’s a really thought-provoking idea you bring up, on third space relationships. while i do have my own established third spaces (my local coffee shop), there aren’t really any relationships attached to it. part of me is okay with that because i mostly use the place to write/read/journal on my own but i recall my old third space, a video game club attached to my old university, to be a place brimming with funny interactions and great discussions, and part of me certainly misses that!
thanks for sharing tolly :)
Thank you for those kind words Salvatore! Sometimes I think third place relationships can be healing even if interaction is minimal. Just the sheer fact of being in a safe physical space, with safe physical humans, is healing to the nervous system…I think.🙂
…I can’t probably articulate how much I needed to read this specific article today…this specific idea that I could not put into words…whoa
❤️
I’ve known about the concept of the Third Place for ages. For me, it’s the barn where I board my mare, and the horsewomen there are my third partners.
Horsewomen are strong, fierce, and independent, and they would walk through fire for you. They’ve saved my life.
That’s beautiful Aslo. Thank you for this!