Fascinating topic! I never label(ed) myself and not entirely sure if non monogamous = polyamorous, but as a single mom/woman dating I started to draw parallels and began applying the philosophy/practices that are commonly used; autonomy, open communication, boundaries, etc when dating and in relationship. Allof which should be used regardless but people (subconsciously)resist or lack the skill set due to being conditioned in monogamous mindsets.
What I have found most interesting is that when I was dating to find partnership/a partner to fill the role of a father in my family unit, I was seen as selfless, encouraged and congratulated (literally) in my pursuit.
When I decided to focus on raising my kids and not date to find a serious commitment until my they were out of the home, I was seen as selfish.
The input and projection from the outside world about me not wanting a serious relationship brought a tangible sense of judgement. And envy from a lot of women.
I was personally able to overcome this, but still, it was not lost on me.
I see it with my female clients that I coach when they are getting divorced or dating. The shame and guilt, the desire to want to experience and explore their sexuality, fear and so much more -it starts to take them down and they can’t understand why they don’t feel more excited, free and liberated to enjoy pleasure or date multiple. Thousands of years of messaging is why. They find themselves having affairs and lying instead.
Lastly, there is a selective outrage and bar set for mothers specifically in our culture on what is acceptable vs not. One that I hope through my writing, work and example will get knocked down.
Ashley, I've been thinking about your comment for days now. This part specifically:
"when I was dating to find partnership/a partner to fill the role of a father in my family unit, I was seen as selfless, encouraged and congratulated (literally) in my pursuit.
When I decided to focus on raising my kids and not date to find a serious commitment until my they were out of the home, I was seen as selfish."
(In fact if it's OK with you I might quote this in an upcoming essay in this series......?)
Your experience reminds me of something Elise Loehnen wrote in "On Our Best Behavior" (her book), about women being conditioned to police other women: "if I don't get to have that pleasure, you shouldn't get to have it, either."
Of course, you're right, it IS all subconscious. Few women actively go around thinking: "I don't think moms should experience sexual pleasure just for kicks." But I think you're onto something about the unexamined monogamous mindset being rooted in scarcity, like you only have so much affection to give, and if you're spending it with partners / lovers / etc. it takes away from your children. Which of course, is not true.
*Want to heavily emphasize here* that plenty of monogamous folks are very conscious, have thoroughly examined their relationship model, feel aligned with it and are doing all the things you mentioned (autonomy, open communication, boundaries). But we happen to be in an interesting cultural moment where women have more economic and sexual opportunity, therapy principles are becoming mainstream, and to top it off folks are questioning conventional relationship models. Fascinating time. And your comment captured all of it.
You can absolutely quote me - thank you for asking! I’ll have to pick up the book you referenced. Ironically the liberated woman without kids is punished as much, if not more. Anyone who doesn’t conform to our culture’s way of being ie the nuclear family; Single persons, LGBTQIA, or those not wanting to follow the models of the ‘American dream’ are punished in ways that at first aren’t obvious until you take a step back and pause to see all the benefits straight couples get; tax breaks, insurance/healthcare benefits, rights and access to be in hospital rooms together.... anyone that falls outside the model is socially condemned and discriminated by the church, your job and your community.
You’re right about this being an interesting cultural moment, not only for women being able to embrace autonomy and economic independence but for persons being more open about their non traditional relationships. Consensual non monogamy and polyamorous relationships have always existed just not so in the open as they are now.
It also informs the political policing and pushback on women and other marginalized groups currently.
Thanks to people like you and others for normalizing the conversation and way of life 💕
I was lovers w a non-monogamous mother of 3 ( we called it polyamory at the time). Her husband would take the kids out so we could have our time together. And I wasn’t her only lover either. She was awesome. And made it work for everyone while clearly stating her desires and boundaries, and all while maintaining a high ethical and honesty standard. A community builder for sure...
David, thank you so much for this insight! May I play the audience avatar for a second? If so, here's my question: how were the kids? In your view, did they seem happy and well-adjusted? Not so much? Something in between? No pressure to answer, but since you spoke to the community-building aspect I'm admittedly curious!
Overall, I’d say the happier the mom, the best chance the kids have (in the mom dimension- happy dads are important too). She homeschooled the kids and I saw hers as a wild, noisy, happy home. By community-building, I meant more among the adults she knew. For example, when her youngest was born, I became one of 5-6 godparents. Had a lovely ceremony out in a park. She led workshops, had a very tight circle of close friends and did a lot of introductions between different people she knew. I imagine she would have been a community builder whether she was poly or monogamous, but she was very dedicated to ethical non-monogamy. (This is all bringing back some very fond memories...) thanks for asking!
Hello sweet Tolly! I look forward to reading your series. As you may remember, I was non-monogamous before I was a mom. My parenting philosophy/practice is directly tied to how I do polyamory, because, for me, both are rooted in a liberation mindset. I value autonomy, self-determination, communication, democracy, equity. Non-monogamy allows for me to practice these principles in my relationships while being able to express my queerness and rebel against the patriarchy a lil bit. 😘
Before I became a parent, I was determined not to let parenting get in the way of my relationships outside of those with my co-parent/husband. It was important to me to not let the romantic side of me die away. The reality was that not only have I not had as much time for dating and intimacy (even with my husband who is literally right there very night 🤣), but my priorities have seen a major shift toward community and workplace organizing. When I became pregnant, it became very important to me to start doing my part in earnest to make the world a better place. So although I still maintain some of my relationships, it’s been hard to find the motivation to do the hard work of growing and tending them. I have been wondering if anyone else felt this way, actually, so it could be something for you to explore? Sending you love. 💕
I remember Kellen! And you have always been someone who (in my eyes) so clearly lives their values. I 100% see how those values align with the "philosophy" of non-monogamy, in addition to the practice of it.
Your quote reminds me of the saying -- "love is abundant, time is not." So, I think that's awesome (and intrinsic to who you are) that you've shifted your liberatory practices towards labor, community activism, and more large-scale forms of equity, following your heart on those even if it means time sacrifices elsewhere.
In fact, noted on a potential topic, about moms + non-monogamy + the time aspect! The response to this post has frankly been more than I've ever gotten on any post from non-monogamous moms and their friends/partners etc., so I've definitely got a Q&A or two in the works...and will include this time question!
Single non-mom here! I personally don't believe we're meant to be monogamous. We grow and change so much throughout our lives, how can we expect one person to meet all of our needs? It's so much pressure. And a decision commonly made young, when we have no idea what's to come. If a couple is secure and mature enough to pull this off, I think it could make a family stronger. Content parents having their needs met while teaching kids you don't have to blindly follow the norm.
k8tee thanks so much for chiming in!! Your comment reminds me a lot of the Chris Ryan book, "Sex At Dawn" -- he makes a similar argument, but takes it back all the way to bonobo days. Anyway, "content parents having their needs met while teaching kids you don't have to blindly follow the norm" is just solid life advice. Like I know a lot of monogamous moms who feel sexually/emotionally content with their married partners, BUT get their kicks in other ways: being artists, starting a business/nonprofit, having a ton of friendships. Which totally underlines your point about "how can we expect one person to meet all of our needs?" You're right, we can't. :-)
Beautiful!! Who are these non-monogamous moms and where might I find one in this crazy world? ;)
Love you baby:)))
Fascinating topic! I never label(ed) myself and not entirely sure if non monogamous = polyamorous, but as a single mom/woman dating I started to draw parallels and began applying the philosophy/practices that are commonly used; autonomy, open communication, boundaries, etc when dating and in relationship. Allof which should be used regardless but people (subconsciously)resist or lack the skill set due to being conditioned in monogamous mindsets.
What I have found most interesting is that when I was dating to find partnership/a partner to fill the role of a father in my family unit, I was seen as selfless, encouraged and congratulated (literally) in my pursuit.
When I decided to focus on raising my kids and not date to find a serious commitment until my they were out of the home, I was seen as selfish.
The input and projection from the outside world about me not wanting a serious relationship brought a tangible sense of judgement. And envy from a lot of women.
I was personally able to overcome this, but still, it was not lost on me.
I see it with my female clients that I coach when they are getting divorced or dating. The shame and guilt, the desire to want to experience and explore their sexuality, fear and so much more -it starts to take them down and they can’t understand why they don’t feel more excited, free and liberated to enjoy pleasure or date multiple. Thousands of years of messaging is why. They find themselves having affairs and lying instead.
Lastly, there is a selective outrage and bar set for mothers specifically in our culture on what is acceptable vs not. One that I hope through my writing, work and example will get knocked down.
I look forward to reading your series 🪄🪩
Ashley, I've been thinking about your comment for days now. This part specifically:
"when I was dating to find partnership/a partner to fill the role of a father in my family unit, I was seen as selfless, encouraged and congratulated (literally) in my pursuit.
When I decided to focus on raising my kids and not date to find a serious commitment until my they were out of the home, I was seen as selfish."
(In fact if it's OK with you I might quote this in an upcoming essay in this series......?)
Your experience reminds me of something Elise Loehnen wrote in "On Our Best Behavior" (her book), about women being conditioned to police other women: "if I don't get to have that pleasure, you shouldn't get to have it, either."
Of course, you're right, it IS all subconscious. Few women actively go around thinking: "I don't think moms should experience sexual pleasure just for kicks." But I think you're onto something about the unexamined monogamous mindset being rooted in scarcity, like you only have so much affection to give, and if you're spending it with partners / lovers / etc. it takes away from your children. Which of course, is not true.
*Want to heavily emphasize here* that plenty of monogamous folks are very conscious, have thoroughly examined their relationship model, feel aligned with it and are doing all the things you mentioned (autonomy, open communication, boundaries). But we happen to be in an interesting cultural moment where women have more economic and sexual opportunity, therapy principles are becoming mainstream, and to top it off folks are questioning conventional relationship models. Fascinating time. And your comment captured all of it.
You can absolutely quote me - thank you for asking! I’ll have to pick up the book you referenced. Ironically the liberated woman without kids is punished as much, if not more. Anyone who doesn’t conform to our culture’s way of being ie the nuclear family; Single persons, LGBTQIA, or those not wanting to follow the models of the ‘American dream’ are punished in ways that at first aren’t obvious until you take a step back and pause to see all the benefits straight couples get; tax breaks, insurance/healthcare benefits, rights and access to be in hospital rooms together.... anyone that falls outside the model is socially condemned and discriminated by the church, your job and your community.
You’re right about this being an interesting cultural moment, not only for women being able to embrace autonomy and economic independence but for persons being more open about their non traditional relationships. Consensual non monogamy and polyamorous relationships have always existed just not so in the open as they are now.
It also informs the political policing and pushback on women and other marginalized groups currently.
Thanks to people like you and others for normalizing the conversation and way of life 💕
Super interesting points, especially about how society allowed your reasons for seeking partners to change how they characterized you. 🤔🤔
I was lovers w a non-monogamous mother of 3 ( we called it polyamory at the time). Her husband would take the kids out so we could have our time together. And I wasn’t her only lover either. She was awesome. And made it work for everyone while clearly stating her desires and boundaries, and all while maintaining a high ethical and honesty standard. A community builder for sure...
David, thank you so much for this insight! May I play the audience avatar for a second? If so, here's my question: how were the kids? In your view, did they seem happy and well-adjusted? Not so much? Something in between? No pressure to answer, but since you spoke to the community-building aspect I'm admittedly curious!
Overall, I’d say the happier the mom, the best chance the kids have (in the mom dimension- happy dads are important too). She homeschooled the kids and I saw hers as a wild, noisy, happy home. By community-building, I meant more among the adults she knew. For example, when her youngest was born, I became one of 5-6 godparents. Had a lovely ceremony out in a park. She led workshops, had a very tight circle of close friends and did a lot of introductions between different people she knew. I imagine she would have been a community builder whether she was poly or monogamous, but she was very dedicated to ethical non-monogamy. (This is all bringing back some very fond memories...) thanks for asking!
Hello sweet Tolly! I look forward to reading your series. As you may remember, I was non-monogamous before I was a mom. My parenting philosophy/practice is directly tied to how I do polyamory, because, for me, both are rooted in a liberation mindset. I value autonomy, self-determination, communication, democracy, equity. Non-monogamy allows for me to practice these principles in my relationships while being able to express my queerness and rebel against the patriarchy a lil bit. 😘
Before I became a parent, I was determined not to let parenting get in the way of my relationships outside of those with my co-parent/husband. It was important to me to not let the romantic side of me die away. The reality was that not only have I not had as much time for dating and intimacy (even with my husband who is literally right there very night 🤣), but my priorities have seen a major shift toward community and workplace organizing. When I became pregnant, it became very important to me to start doing my part in earnest to make the world a better place. So although I still maintain some of my relationships, it’s been hard to find the motivation to do the hard work of growing and tending them. I have been wondering if anyone else felt this way, actually, so it could be something for you to explore? Sending you love. 💕
I remember Kellen! And you have always been someone who (in my eyes) so clearly lives their values. I 100% see how those values align with the "philosophy" of non-monogamy, in addition to the practice of it.
Your quote reminds me of the saying -- "love is abundant, time is not." So, I think that's awesome (and intrinsic to who you are) that you've shifted your liberatory practices towards labor, community activism, and more large-scale forms of equity, following your heart on those even if it means time sacrifices elsewhere.
In fact, noted on a potential topic, about moms + non-monogamy + the time aspect! The response to this post has frankly been more than I've ever gotten on any post from non-monogamous moms and their friends/partners etc., so I've definitely got a Q&A or two in the works...and will include this time question!
Single non-mom here! I personally don't believe we're meant to be monogamous. We grow and change so much throughout our lives, how can we expect one person to meet all of our needs? It's so much pressure. And a decision commonly made young, when we have no idea what's to come. If a couple is secure and mature enough to pull this off, I think it could make a family stronger. Content parents having their needs met while teaching kids you don't have to blindly follow the norm.
k8tee thanks so much for chiming in!! Your comment reminds me a lot of the Chris Ryan book, "Sex At Dawn" -- he makes a similar argument, but takes it back all the way to bonobo days. Anyway, "content parents having their needs met while teaching kids you don't have to blindly follow the norm" is just solid life advice. Like I know a lot of monogamous moms who feel sexually/emotionally content with their married partners, BUT get their kicks in other ways: being artists, starting a business/nonprofit, having a ton of friendships. Which totally underlines your point about "how can we expect one person to meet all of our needs?" You're right, we can't. :-)