Such a beautiful post, Tolly -- and a profound insight ("pleasure undermines power"). It makes me think about all the religions/cultures that actively seek to deny women pleasure. (Not to take this to a really dark place, but it's so horrifying to think that there are something like 92 countries in which female genital mutilation is practiced.) Across history, we've sought to enhance pleasure for men and suppress it for women ... and it's sad to see so many American Evangelical Christians with the same kind of outmoded patriarchal worldviews today (including a lot of Evangelical women, who don't seem to realize that they're advocating for an idea that essentially regards them as property). Adding Meggan Watterson's book to my "to read" list.
A) I think you'll love Meggan's book Rich and B) totally, re: Evangelical women. I had the realization recently that when you introduce ideas of good and evil, or God and Satan, ANYTHING is possible (like accepting ideas that regard you as property). I went down a podcast rabbit hole listening to the Ruby Franke story, and while the subject matter is different from this post, that whole saga is a good example of a person doing horrific things because she's been convinced she's battling "Satan." On that note, I could go on and one about how wild it is that churches use war metaphors and language...constantly.
I wonder if that Bryan Adams song "Summer of '69" was written when they updated the General Roman Calendar and stopped calling Mary Magdalene a prostitute. If you could ask her it seems like she wouldn't have cared one way or the other though. "Those were the best days of my life!" (guitar solo)
Amen Luna (Anyeri? You tell me your preference.) I feel that, too. Especially since recreational, consensual sex - and by extension - having an intimate relationship with your own body, was something none of us should have ever felt shame for. 🤍
I read this book at the beginning of the year and really loved it…it made me think a lot about how different Christianity could have been if her voice had not been taken out (and ultimately how different our world would be). Loved reading your reflections on it — and seeing the picture of the entrance to the cave she lived in. A portal to spiritual mystery indeed 🥹
Kelsey, isn’t there something cleansing about getting to know Mary Magdalene? Her cave, her loving connection to Jesus, perhaps even her eroticism. In the moments when Christianity feels like a cultural power coercion (Ten Commandments posted in classrooms) and not actually Christ-like (lack of free school lunch), I think about Mary Magdalene now and it gives me a little hope. Like. Maybe we’re finally ready for her. Maybe she’s coming “back” now for a reason.
Of course Jesus had sex. He was a young man who hung around with the lower levels of society. He didn’t have any of the divinity that the myths springing up after his death invested him with.
None of the books of the New Testament or the Apocrypha were written by people who actually knew Jesus. The earliest were written around seventy years after he died, based on now-lost texts.
With the exception of Paul, who actually has very little to say about Jesus, despite him having talked with family members and followers. Not all of the works attributed to Paul are genuine, in any case.
The New Testament's early texts were written on papyrus, which has a short practical lifespan before disintegrating. So what we have are copies of copies of copies, each with the inevitable errors and editorial additions and subtractions that creep in. There are, if you compare these extant texts, each one of which has been extensively studied, more errors in the New Testament than there are words in it.
If Jesus had gone around preaching the Nicene Creed and saying that he was in fact, the Jewish Creator-God, there would have been no crucifixion; the Temple priests would have stoned him on the spot for blasphemy.
He was just a man from Nazareth who preached some pretty good stuff to those outside the established power structures of the time and place. If Mary Magdalene survived in the extant myths then we have reasonable confidence that she was his sex partner, and probably one of many, groupies being what they are.
Biblical scholars will tell you that maybe ten percent of what is recorded of the words of Jesus can be regarded as accurate. They won’t agree on which ten percent, though!
Most of what we know about Jesus's life comes from educated Greeks who copied out texts written many decades after he died. Jesus didn’t speak Greek, so - bar a few precious words of Aramaic - everything we have is a translation of a translation, distorted through endless copying until finally the scribes in Alexandria and Rome decided on what was canon and what wasn’t, and the Roman church leadership sorted out dogma.
Early Christian writings dealt obsessively with theories and opinions as to what Jesus had been. Just a man, a god in human form, part-god, part man, and when had the transitions occurred. Christian dogma now seems settled but in the early days of the church it was anything but.
Sorry to ramble. I find this stuff fascinating. My parents dragged me along to church and when I began questioning some of the more outrageous claims I began looking into the facts. Most Christians, I can assure you, have very little knowledge of their own religion. Many seem to think that the New Testament was written by his disciples - in English - during or just after Jesus' life and has survived intact since then, pure and incorruptible.
Trying to find Jesus the man amongst all the dogma and fantasy is a task.
Britni, picture me going YESSSSSS to your entire comment. I had to give it a few days until I finally had time to sit down and properly enjoy the whole thing!
What always galls me about the modern church is how much it reflects *Romaness*, way more than Jesus’ words. We’ve got the amphitheater seating, the man down at the bottom telling us what’s what, almost zero women in leadership…
If Christianity were based on Jesus — or the character we can glean of him based on the tiny bits of information we do have — there would be no church buildings, no tithing, and it would probably look like community care. Hanging out outside. Modest lifestyles. Helping each other eat, get medical attention, meditating. Which all sounds very woo to the modern reader but truly, that vision feels so much more closely aligned to his spirit than our current lavish, Christian church spectacles.
Exactly right! I think he would cry to see what is done in his name. He gathered a large and devoted following in the days before television or social media so he and his message must have been attractive. And it wouldn’t have been the “eternal life because I’m God's special guy” stuff they sell us now, it would have been practical, uplifting, thrilling help for those on the bottom of society.
He didn’t hold court in the mansions and palaces, he was welcomed in the kitchens of the poor and slept wherever he was offered a bed.
And the 1st Century equivalent of the fat, selfish, vain billionaires we see today professing support for Christian Nationalism would have hated him.
Y;know the no-personality thing is terrible contagion. A choir friend of mine, who is going for the royal gold award is tasked to a liturgy on one of 6 characters, Magdalene being one of them. He says that within the choristers, it's considered a sure-fail to pick her. It broke my heart enough that I've been working on an academic paper to correct a little. I ended up going with Georges Bataille of all people in regards to Christ's body in the tomb. Your article is not only a great affirmation of my feeling, but also that the eroticism from Batatille can be reconciled within their relationships. (Which is funny, because the same chorister will defend gay-love readings of Jesus, but deny it to Magdalene.) You can sex, eroticism, an our pouring of otherness were the profane and sacred touch. Because if you don't have this, if you have them touching, then the profane drifts away so far that everyone becomes consumed by the profane, creating a worshipping of the fear/devil instead of what is sacred. Judging from the book (Which I have now ordered...) and the reflections of the other commenters is what - as Batatille guessed - the position is in now. Thank you for your article. Means a lot.
Plutonia! This was such a wonderful comment, and I apologize for taking so long to respond. As a fellow Bataille fan (looking at The Accursed Share Vol 1 on my bookshelf rn), I’m glad YOU are doing that paper. My personal theory is that the flesh was made “profane” so that people would, over time, train themselves to ignore the messages their body was sending them. And the body, after all, is one of the best arbiters of truth.
Jesus had a sexual relationship with Mary Magdalen? Not in the teachings of the Roman Catholic church of the ‘40s and ‘50s and ‘60s. Sex before marriage was a sure start on the path to Hell. So, I married a nice Catholic girl, thinking I might redeem myself through marital sexual relations. For pleasure as well as the purpose of begetting children. I soon found that my lovely Catholic wife believed firmly in the teachings of the church that instructed that the “primary purpose of marriage was the propagation of children. Which, to my wife, meant ONLY for the propagation of children. Sex for pleasure in her interpretation was a sin. She never read or heard of the Mary Magdalen writing. This attitude led me to seek satisfaction outside the marriage. And being a practicing Catholic myself, led to continuing feelings of guilt. Imagine the guilt. Cheating on my wife and sinning further by having sex for pleasure. Eventually, I left the church and was relieved of my marital vows. On my third attempt at marriage, I finally found a life partner. A lady raised as a Catholic who did not believe sex was only for the purpose of having children.
Hi Clair! Thank you so much for this brave and vulnerable comment, and I apologize for my tardiness in this late reply. I am so glad you found a life partner, who (I am surmising) believes in sex for pleasure too. Also hey, super appreciate the honesty you modeled for others in going outside your marriage to seek those kinds of connections. Cheating gets demonized a lot, and I’m not endorsing it per se (just like I’m sure you’re not), but sexual connection is truly nourishing for some of us. And when you don’t experience it, life becomes difficult, more cold, more lonely. It’s a legitimate pain, and I feel for past you in that situation. Cheers to the nourishment happening in your current marriage, with your life partner.
So good Tolly. I’ve always struggled with organized religion for many reasons. After reading this and reflecting, it has helped me better understand some of my resistance and lack of connection to any/all religion. The desire to control and shame that is perpetuated gets to me every time. Shifting to MM’s perspective perhaps would allow desire and even control to be interpreted and felt differently. Perhaps in her own way, her flesh and those mouth kisses (or more) was how she imposed her own semblance of power and control in a masculine dominated religious environment of shame. I can see her (women) flipping the script of pleasure undermining power, and instead finding ways to use pleasure to elevate their power - even if behind the scenes or in undocumented unseen ways.
"The desire to control and shame that is perpetuated gets to me every time." -- Ya! Very much same. Knowing that you've struggled with organized religion, you might get a kick out of Meggan's book! (Mary Magdalene Revealed.) I actually listened to it on Audible and it was delightful that way, because Meggan herself reads it.
Ugh thank you for writing this piece!!! Excellent read. I am also reading a book about Mary Magdalene and she is fascinating. I hope one day Christians collectively wake up from the lie.
Such a beautiful post, Tolly -- and a profound insight ("pleasure undermines power"). It makes me think about all the religions/cultures that actively seek to deny women pleasure. (Not to take this to a really dark place, but it's so horrifying to think that there are something like 92 countries in which female genital mutilation is practiced.) Across history, we've sought to enhance pleasure for men and suppress it for women ... and it's sad to see so many American Evangelical Christians with the same kind of outmoded patriarchal worldviews today (including a lot of Evangelical women, who don't seem to realize that they're advocating for an idea that essentially regards them as property). Adding Meggan Watterson's book to my "to read" list.
A) I think you'll love Meggan's book Rich and B) totally, re: Evangelical women. I had the realization recently that when you introduce ideas of good and evil, or God and Satan, ANYTHING is possible (like accepting ideas that regard you as property). I went down a podcast rabbit hole listening to the Ruby Franke story, and while the subject matter is different from this post, that whole saga is a good example of a person doing horrific things because she's been convinced she's battling "Satan." On that note, I could go on and one about how wild it is that churches use war metaphors and language...constantly.
I wonder if that Bryan Adams song "Summer of '69" was written when they updated the General Roman Calendar and stopped calling Mary Magdalene a prostitute. If you could ask her it seems like she wouldn't have cared one way or the other though. "Those were the best days of my life!" (guitar solo)
"I knew that it was now or never" 🎸🎶
I truly feel it and believe it in my bones that Mary and Jesus had a wonderful friendship along with wonderful sex and she would been his #1 apostle.
Amen Luna (Anyeri? You tell me your preference.) I feel that, too. Especially since recreational, consensual sex - and by extension - having an intimate relationship with your own body, was something none of us should have ever felt shame for. 🤍
I read this book at the beginning of the year and really loved it…it made me think a lot about how different Christianity could have been if her voice had not been taken out (and ultimately how different our world would be). Loved reading your reflections on it — and seeing the picture of the entrance to the cave she lived in. A portal to spiritual mystery indeed 🥹
Kelsey, isn’t there something cleansing about getting to know Mary Magdalene? Her cave, her loving connection to Jesus, perhaps even her eroticism. In the moments when Christianity feels like a cultural power coercion (Ten Commandments posted in classrooms) and not actually Christ-like (lack of free school lunch), I think about Mary Magdalene now and it gives me a little hope. Like. Maybe we’re finally ready for her. Maybe she’s coming “back” now for a reason.
There really is. And I feel that — I think we need her messaging now more than ever.
Tolly, this is such an incredibly beautiful reflection. I hope you’ll send it to Meggan Watterson! ❤️♾️❤️
Thanks Molly!! Meggan's book came at the right time for me. And I've got YOU to thank for that. <3
Not ready to leave a proper comment, just dropping a quick note to say thank you. I will be back with more!
Of course Jesus had sex. He was a young man who hung around with the lower levels of society. He didn’t have any of the divinity that the myths springing up after his death invested him with.
None of the books of the New Testament or the Apocrypha were written by people who actually knew Jesus. The earliest were written around seventy years after he died, based on now-lost texts.
With the exception of Paul, who actually has very little to say about Jesus, despite him having talked with family members and followers. Not all of the works attributed to Paul are genuine, in any case.
The New Testament's early texts were written on papyrus, which has a short practical lifespan before disintegrating. So what we have are copies of copies of copies, each with the inevitable errors and editorial additions and subtractions that creep in. There are, if you compare these extant texts, each one of which has been extensively studied, more errors in the New Testament than there are words in it.
If Jesus had gone around preaching the Nicene Creed and saying that he was in fact, the Jewish Creator-God, there would have been no crucifixion; the Temple priests would have stoned him on the spot for blasphemy.
He was just a man from Nazareth who preached some pretty good stuff to those outside the established power structures of the time and place. If Mary Magdalene survived in the extant myths then we have reasonable confidence that she was his sex partner, and probably one of many, groupies being what they are.
Biblical scholars will tell you that maybe ten percent of what is recorded of the words of Jesus can be regarded as accurate. They won’t agree on which ten percent, though!
Most of what we know about Jesus's life comes from educated Greeks who copied out texts written many decades after he died. Jesus didn’t speak Greek, so - bar a few precious words of Aramaic - everything we have is a translation of a translation, distorted through endless copying until finally the scribes in Alexandria and Rome decided on what was canon and what wasn’t, and the Roman church leadership sorted out dogma.
Early Christian writings dealt obsessively with theories and opinions as to what Jesus had been. Just a man, a god in human form, part-god, part man, and when had the transitions occurred. Christian dogma now seems settled but in the early days of the church it was anything but.
Sorry to ramble. I find this stuff fascinating. My parents dragged me along to church and when I began questioning some of the more outrageous claims I began looking into the facts. Most Christians, I can assure you, have very little knowledge of their own religion. Many seem to think that the New Testament was written by his disciples - in English - during or just after Jesus' life and has survived intact since then, pure and incorruptible.
Trying to find Jesus the man amongst all the dogma and fantasy is a task.
Britni, picture me going YESSSSSS to your entire comment. I had to give it a few days until I finally had time to sit down and properly enjoy the whole thing!
What always galls me about the modern church is how much it reflects *Romaness*, way more than Jesus’ words. We’ve got the amphitheater seating, the man down at the bottom telling us what’s what, almost zero women in leadership…
If Christianity were based on Jesus — or the character we can glean of him based on the tiny bits of information we do have — there would be no church buildings, no tithing, and it would probably look like community care. Hanging out outside. Modest lifestyles. Helping each other eat, get medical attention, meditating. Which all sounds very woo to the modern reader but truly, that vision feels so much more closely aligned to his spirit than our current lavish, Christian church spectacles.
Exactly right! I think he would cry to see what is done in his name. He gathered a large and devoted following in the days before television or social media so he and his message must have been attractive. And it wouldn’t have been the “eternal life because I’m God's special guy” stuff they sell us now, it would have been practical, uplifting, thrilling help for those on the bottom of society.
He didn’t hold court in the mansions and palaces, he was welcomed in the kitchens of the poor and slept wherever he was offered a bed.
And the 1st Century equivalent of the fat, selfish, vain billionaires we see today professing support for Christian Nationalism would have hated him.
Y;know the no-personality thing is terrible contagion. A choir friend of mine, who is going for the royal gold award is tasked to a liturgy on one of 6 characters, Magdalene being one of them. He says that within the choristers, it's considered a sure-fail to pick her. It broke my heart enough that I've been working on an academic paper to correct a little. I ended up going with Georges Bataille of all people in regards to Christ's body in the tomb. Your article is not only a great affirmation of my feeling, but also that the eroticism from Batatille can be reconciled within their relationships. (Which is funny, because the same chorister will defend gay-love readings of Jesus, but deny it to Magdalene.) You can sex, eroticism, an our pouring of otherness were the profane and sacred touch. Because if you don't have this, if you have them touching, then the profane drifts away so far that everyone becomes consumed by the profane, creating a worshipping of the fear/devil instead of what is sacred. Judging from the book (Which I have now ordered...) and the reflections of the other commenters is what - as Batatille guessed - the position is in now. Thank you for your article. Means a lot.
Plutonia! This was such a wonderful comment, and I apologize for taking so long to respond. As a fellow Bataille fan (looking at The Accursed Share Vol 1 on my bookshelf rn), I’m glad YOU are doing that paper. My personal theory is that the flesh was made “profane” so that people would, over time, train themselves to ignore the messages their body was sending them. And the body, after all, is one of the best arbiters of truth.
Jesus had a sexual relationship with Mary Magdalen? Not in the teachings of the Roman Catholic church of the ‘40s and ‘50s and ‘60s. Sex before marriage was a sure start on the path to Hell. So, I married a nice Catholic girl, thinking I might redeem myself through marital sexual relations. For pleasure as well as the purpose of begetting children. I soon found that my lovely Catholic wife believed firmly in the teachings of the church that instructed that the “primary purpose of marriage was the propagation of children. Which, to my wife, meant ONLY for the propagation of children. Sex for pleasure in her interpretation was a sin. She never read or heard of the Mary Magdalen writing. This attitude led me to seek satisfaction outside the marriage. And being a practicing Catholic myself, led to continuing feelings of guilt. Imagine the guilt. Cheating on my wife and sinning further by having sex for pleasure. Eventually, I left the church and was relieved of my marital vows. On my third attempt at marriage, I finally found a life partner. A lady raised as a Catholic who did not believe sex was only for the purpose of having children.
Hi Clair! Thank you so much for this brave and vulnerable comment, and I apologize for my tardiness in this late reply. I am so glad you found a life partner, who (I am surmising) believes in sex for pleasure too. Also hey, super appreciate the honesty you modeled for others in going outside your marriage to seek those kinds of connections. Cheating gets demonized a lot, and I’m not endorsing it per se (just like I’m sure you’re not), but sexual connection is truly nourishing for some of us. And when you don’t experience it, life becomes difficult, more cold, more lonely. It’s a legitimate pain, and I feel for past you in that situation. Cheers to the nourishment happening in your current marriage, with your life partner.
Thank you. My marriage—my final marriage—has lasted 34 happy years.
So good Tolly. I’ve always struggled with organized religion for many reasons. After reading this and reflecting, it has helped me better understand some of my resistance and lack of connection to any/all religion. The desire to control and shame that is perpetuated gets to me every time. Shifting to MM’s perspective perhaps would allow desire and even control to be interpreted and felt differently. Perhaps in her own way, her flesh and those mouth kisses (or more) was how she imposed her own semblance of power and control in a masculine dominated religious environment of shame. I can see her (women) flipping the script of pleasure undermining power, and instead finding ways to use pleasure to elevate their power - even if behind the scenes or in undocumented unseen ways.
"The desire to control and shame that is perpetuated gets to me every time." -- Ya! Very much same. Knowing that you've struggled with organized religion, you might get a kick out of Meggan's book! (Mary Magdalene Revealed.) I actually listened to it on Audible and it was delightful that way, because Meggan herself reads it.
ha! I just added to my read list yesterday. thanks!
Ugh thank you for writing this piece!!! Excellent read. I am also reading a book about Mary Magdalene and she is fascinating. I hope one day Christians collectively wake up from the lie.
I hope so too Vashti! (& I feel it in the air.) Thanks so much for being here, I’m glad this one connected with you!